I've done some work on fixing the menus for IDLE before 2.5b1, but 
recently found more toplevel windows that don't have their own menu.

Both the Path Browser and Class Browser don't have a menubar of their 
own. The Tk implementation on MacOSX won't accept an empty menubar, 
but will replace that by a generic Tk menubar.

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I suppose this is also true for the debugger?

I'd consider this a bug in OSX Tk, it should be
reported there.

Without a specific need for a menubar, all it does
is take up valuable vertical space.  And continuing
to add OSX special casing clutters up the IDLE code;
IMO it should be limited to situations where
functionality is compromised.

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These menu problems are at the very root caused by differences in the way 
menus work on OSX (one application wide menu at the top of the screen) and 
most other systems (optional menus for every window).  Applications on OSX 
must have some kind of menu (or be full-screen, but we don't want that for 
IDLE), Tk uses the per-window menu for the currently selected window for 
that. If a window doesn't have a menu it makes up one and I haven't found a 
way yet to override that menu (which would solve that problem once and for 
all).

I do believe that my other changes really are good, they make IDLE perform 
more like a true OSX application. This is important because IDLE is the default 
IDE, and hence probably the first thing naive OSX users will see of python.

BTW. AquaTk really sucks, which makes it annoyingly hard to create a really 
good OSX citizen of IDLE and I have given up on getting there. If I understand 
the lazyweb correctly you're supposed to port your appliations to some other 
GUI library (Tile?) to get a native L&F for lots of widgets and standard dialogs.

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> Tk uses the per-window menu for the currently
> selected window

I assume you mean AquaTk uses the per-window...

Please put in a bug request on AquaTk to get it
to conform to how Tk handles this menu on Linux
and Windows.  Then downgrade the priority of this
bug or close it.

Does the debugger have the same problem?

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Yes I mean AquaTk. The debugger has the same problem (as expected because 
it doesn't define its own menu)

The behaviour of AquaTk is a feature, not a bug. Appearently the default menu 
is inheritted from the root ("."). I'll see if I can override that menu in 
macosxSupport.setupApp.

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Changing the default root menu is indeed possible without changes outside 
macosxSupport.py. I'm going to apply the attached patch later today.

Annoyingly enough AquaTk still adds an (empty) Help menu to our menubar. It 
would be nice to fill that menu, but that would IMHO add to much code. I'm 
happy enough to blame that glitch on AquaTk.

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Applied in revision 50785